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Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:57 pm
by IDF783
MattEv14 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:16 pm To me the biggest thing is how the Fleet Air Power Demo has deteriorated over the years. It used to be so interesting not just with the variety of the demo, but also the aggressiveness of the passes.
Yeah - just watching it on live stream it seemed pretty weak. The only time I was there in '04 which still had the Tomcats (and Hornets) it was awe inspiring. Constant action and very close to the crowd. Many AB passes. Amazing.

Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 6:26 pm
by Imladris18
Airplanefreak2000 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:37 pm
MattEv14 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:16 pm A prior post mentioned something lacking this year. I honestly couldn't agree more. I attended Saturday and watched off base and from the beach Thursday, Friday, and Sunday. To me the biggest thing is how the Fleet Air Power Demo has deteriorated over the years. It used to be so interesting not just with the variety of the demo, but also the aggressiveness of the passes. Honestly, while it was nice to see the E-2 in the mix this year the passes from the hornets were super tame. They barely lit the AB's with most of the passes in military power well away from the crowd except the double sneak pass. Same goes with the beach blast passes on Saturday night. It was great to see a two ship instead of the usual single, but it's supposed to be an afterburner flyover and they literally barely had the burners lit at all.
This just doesn’t apply to the fleet power, this seems to be a super hornet thing for sure. This rant does not include the F-35 and growler teams as they kill it. I’ve seen both the super East and west demos this year and both have deteriorated rapidly. It’s not the jet. It’s loud, fast and can maneuver. It’s how the demo is orchestrated. It’s become lackluster because it isn’t in your face as every other demo team is. Lots of high away from the crowd maneuvers. Yea the high speed passes and dirty roll on takeoff are cool but what else? The high alpha is flown very high, the mrt looks like a like a weak carrier break, the inverted whisper pass needs gone asap, square loop can stay. the demo needs to be in front of the crowd more. For all the good Top Gun: Maverick did for the super hornet, the demo unfortunately lets it down. It’s not the crews fault or the jets fault. It’s just a performance that keeps the crowd from really engaging in it. I think they need to take a look at that demo and create a new profile.
Talking with the crews at Cleveland a couple weeks ago, Cleveland was only the second demo for the one demo pilot, so he was very new and seemed to play it a little more "safe." They were trying to get him flying more often to finish out the season.

Seeing both pilots fly the same demo the same day for practice day... it was pretty noticeable when a seasoned, more comfortable demo pilot was flying vs a new one. Passes were a lot closer, maneuvers more aggressive, etc.

That said, I'm not attached to the whisper pass at all and definitely wouldn't be opposed to some new stuff.

The past several years, it does seem like they are always kinda just cobbling together the demo team last minute (they're really not even a "demo team" in the same vein as the ACC demos - more like instructors flying on the weekends). They haven't actually released a show schedule before the season starts since well before COVID.

Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:36 pm
by RyanS
At Cleveland I was particularly struck by the notable difference in the pull out of the opening half cuban. In the past it used to be a very strong pull to a tail stand on the way down, and it was pretty cool. The one I saw this year was a very gentle pull back to level without any of the 'cobra' action.

I think the routine could certainly be improved, but the only thing that has changed since 'the good old days' is skipping the loaded roll, which was always the highlight for me but it proved unsafe and killed a crew so hard to argue about bringing it back. I think the routine is simply now flown a lot softer with gentler pulls and just looser maneuvers. I agree that different crews and comfort level can make a huge difference - anyone who saw both SH demos at Oshkosh knew immediately who grew up as an airshow fan and who didn't.

I agree on the whisper pass but also I don't think the pitch-rate demo is as cool as the crews seem to think it is. They do like 3-4 in a demo but unless they are flying it HARD it is a waste of a pass and doesn't show anything off. And most people don't even look at the pirouettes because they are so high and far away. Meanwhile the photo pass is usually very well flown and the touch and go is pretty cool. Given that the Hornet's main trick is popping vapor and cones, I keep finding myself wishing they would throw in an extra high speed from the other direction for another chance - especially on a low show. Everyone goes nuts when it starts flickering vapor so play into that.

On the other hand the post-sequestration Navy made clear that demos are NOT the priority, and even now it feels every winter we have to start wondering whether we'll even get demos next year or not. As you said the demo teams are really just instructors flying on the weekends and there have been long stretches without any approved demos. I am sure they have been told to not break the jets because 95% of the crowd can't tell the difference anyway.

Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:27 pm
by Meekashark
Airplanefreak2000 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:37 pm
MattEv14 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:16 pm A prior post mentioned something lacking this year. I honestly couldn't agree more. I attended Saturday and watched off base and from the beach Thursday, Friday, and Sunday. To me the biggest thing is how the Fleet Air Power Demo has deteriorated over the years. It used to be so interesting not just with the variety of the demo, but also the aggressiveness of the passes. Honestly, while it was nice to see the E-2 in the mix this year the passes from the hornets were super tame. They barely lit the AB's with most of the passes in military power well away from the crowd except the double sneak pass. Same goes with the beach blast passes on Saturday night. It was great to see a two ship instead of the usual single, but it's supposed to be an afterburner flyover and they literally barely had the burners lit at all.
This just doesn’t apply to the fleet power, this seems to be a super hornet thing for sure. This rant does not include the F-35 and growler teams as they kill it. I’ve seen both the super East and west demos this year and both have deteriorated rapidly. It’s not the jet. It’s loud, fast and can maneuver. It’s how the demo is orchestrated. It’s become lackluster because it isn’t in your face as every other demo team is. Lots of high away from the crowd maneuvers. Yea the high speed passes and dirty roll on takeoff are cool but what else? The high alpha is flown very high, the mrt looks like a like a weak carrier break, the inverted whisper pass needs gone asap, square loop can stay. the demo needs to be in front of the crowd more. For all the good Top Gun: Maverick did for the super hornet, the demo unfortunately lets it down. It’s not the crews fault or the jets fault. It’s just a performance that keeps the crowd from really engaging in it. I think they need to take a look at that demo and create a new profile.

I honestly thought it was in my head about the Super Hornet demo being less aggressive, I just chalked it up as I've seen it so many times. When they did the show at Langley earlier in the season it was exactly as you described but I remember they didn't even commit until a couple of weeks before that show. I figured by the time Oceana came around we would get a thriller. I've noticed they don't perform the flat pirouette maneuver like they used to and the carrier configuration pass with the gear down, flaps and tail hook out. Could they have neutered all the Super Hornet performances because of hours on the jet?

I have to admit, I'm guilty as charged for thinking about the good old days. Sorry.

Another thing I noticed 99% of the show is the planes flying, statics, etc.... but... the announcing during the show brings it together. I couldn't do his job but... "We have plenty more boom coming up in this next pass." No!
"Here is the F18 show of force pass"... well what is a show of force?? Please keep Rob Reider next time. The guy did great for the aerobatics stuff but I don't think he has much experience with military announcing.

We missed the beach blast as we were stuck in the baseball field parking lot 50 yards away from Oceana Blvd just inside Tomcat Blvd. We finally got off base and heard a jet... then it sounded like a second one.. aw man the beach blast must be starting. Looked up and saw an F18 with his gear down landing... well I guess we missed the beach blast??? Ocean facing hotel room down the drain.
Obviously putting on an airshow takes a lot of work and energy and Oceana has done a great job over the years. Many great memories with the family and it scratches my aviation itch that I have. I get 14 vacation days for the year and Oceana takes 3 of them Friday-Sunday.... I'm going to have to think long and hard about next year if they have a show.

Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:30 pm
by Dan Gagnon
Meekashark wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:27 pm the announcing during the show brings it together. I couldn't do his job but... "We have plenty more boom coming up in this next pass." No!
"Here is the F18 show of force pass"... well what is a show of force?? Please keep Rob Reider next time. The guy did great for the aerobatics stuff but I don't think he has much experience with military announcing.
Ric Peterson has almost 30 years experience in airshow announcing. If you checked out his social media and website, you would know he does many big shows like Fleet Week, Sanicole in Belgium and more. He's also done Oceana many times over the years. He has plenty of announcing experience. It's not really his fault if a jet doesn't actually light the burners and rips along the flightline, like was planned. As mentioned, the Air Power demo seemed to be lacking for those at the show (I could also tell on the livestream, when ever they tried to show a jet lol)

Anyways, Ric and Rob are both pros at airshow announcing and are the best of the business. Either one would be great at any show.

Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:01 pm
by jpujol
Anybody know why RAZZ was not wearing the colorful HGU-55 helmet with his call sign at Oceana?

He was wearing a regular, gray HGU-55.

I was thinking maybe he donated it to a charity or something.

Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:03 pm
by n33d4sp33d_85
Here are my highlights from the Saturday show.

1. USAF F-22 Raptor Demo



2. USN F/A-18 Super Hornet Demo



3. USN Blue Angels



4. Rob Holland



5. Aaron Fitzgerald and the Red Bull Bo 105



For the rest of my videos, go here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... luetQUqMPT

Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:12 am
by Lewy
This was my only 2nd ever airshow. I thought the atlantic city airshow was more impressive I was in the ocean for an airshow cruise (highly recommend motion sickness medicine) one of the thunderbirds got close to us not passing by in front of us but did a hard maneuver and pulled a horizontal loop. That was a holy shit moment. :lol:
Maybe it wasn't exactly a hard maneuver but was surprised by it.

Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:12 pm
by n33d4sp33d_85
Here are my highlights from the Sunday show.









For the rest of my videos, click here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 0Fp3AWDuq7

Re: NAS Oceana Air Show 2023

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:26 am
by dzirzow
OK, I know the show is in the past. I have never been to this part of the country and looks like will be spending 2 nights next week in the VA Beach area.

Can anyone give any recommendations for spotting and where to stay? Will be purely sightseeing trip. Any of the beach hotels with balconies good to stay having views of aircraft or they too far away?

Anywhere by Langley good to spot from also? I am just partial to afterburners.

Thanks.