Thunder Over Michigan 2023

[JBavaition]

After the understandable switch to the drive in format in 2021, many of us enthusiasts were able to enjoy the show. This was because of all the prepurchased tickets from 2020 and 2021 that translated into freebie drive in car passes for a stacked show with the Blues, Tbirds, F-35 Demo, A-10 Demo, and a ton of Mitchells.

The positive feedback from that show’s surveys lead to another attempt at the drive-in format in 2022 with more outrageously overpriced tickets (especially for just one or two people) and a show cut in half for that price. Also add in the fact that hardly any freebies were given out for the show and half the lineup canceled in the days prior. A majority of 2022’s attendance was families who could afford the price and only care if the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds are flying. Again, surveys were sent out to determine 2023’s format, and once again “Positive Feedback”.

These surveys seem very one sided to me, because they can only send out surveys to ticket holders, and a majority of the drive in attendance only went for the convenience, and not because they are aviation lovers. In my mind, this skews the results of the surveys to be one sided towards people who love the format. This, combined with greed from the museum, ultimately decides the format that us aviation geeks have to endure each new year.

I have always felt like the Yankee Air Museum has done so much for all of us with its air shows every year, but the future years look very dark for this show and it saddens me because I live within a 10 minute drive of the museum. It is so hard to see my local show that has treated me so well every year go down this path.

All of that is my reasoning behind the drive in format. Whether you agree with this format decision or not, I think it’s here to stay unless they take a major hit this year in ticket sales in the absence of a jet team.

[Laskow2]

This show is a shell of what it used to be. I am not only person no longer attending like they used to go. Hoping they go back to full day shows next year and bring back the re-enactments, etc.

totally agree, between this show and now indys outrageous parking price two shows i wont be attending until something changes

Wow, was going to try and attend Indy show too until $150 mandatory parking pass???????? Out of hand. GA ticket only $10.00.... like buying on E-bay and forgetting to click on price + shipping.

i mean dont get me wrong for a car load of like 5-7 people its high but understandable , what makes me upset is the single guy going by himself gets totally priced out by thunder and indy...

[jhtolatc]

After the understandable switch to the drive in format in 2021, many of us enthusiasts were able to enjoy the show. This was because of all the prepurchased tickets from 2020 and 2021 that translated into freebie drive in car passes for a stacked show with the Blues, Tbirds, F-35 Demo, A-10 Demo, and a ton of Mitchells.

The positive feedback from that show’s surveys lead to another attempt at the drive-in format in 2022 with more outrageously overpriced tickets (especially for just one or two people) and a show cut in half for that price. Also add in the fact that hardly any freebies were given out for the show and half the lineup canceled in the days prior. A majority of 2022’s attendance was families who could afford the price and only care if the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds are flying. Again, surveys were sent out to determine 2023’s format, and once again “Positive Feedback”.

These surveys seem very one sided to me, because they can only send out surveys to ticket holders, and a majority of the drive in attendance only went for the convenience, and not because they are aviation lovers. In my mind, this skews the results of the surveys to be one sided towards people who love the format. This, combined with greed from the museum, ultimately decides the format that us aviation geeks have to endure each new year.

I have always felt like the Yankee Air Museum has done so much for all of us with its air shows every year, but the future years look very dark for this show and it saddens me because I live within a 10 minute drive of the museum. It is so hard to see my local show that has treated me so well every year go down this path.

All of that is my reasoning behind the drive in format. Whether you agree with this format decision or not, I think it’s here to stay unless they take a major hit this year in ticket sales in the absence of a jet team.

I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment of the drive-in format, although it seems to me the show is dead-set on using this format ad infinitum, and I'm not certain a bad result at the ticket office or in survey feedback will change their course at this point. They put out a social media post today touting the "benefits" of drive-in and in my opinion, it was pure gaslighting. I attended in 2021 because I was able to split the ticket among two others, and because both major US jet teams were performing. Typically I'm only able to attend shows solo, and I find this format to be heavily discriminatory against people in my circumstance. I'm going into the show this year only because I was fortunate to win a contest in which I got a full-day Saturday photo pit ticket, and I picked up the Friday pit as well because I was already going to be there by Friday anyway. Had I not, I'd probably have met up with a former coworker at the tower on Saturday to watch from there. No way I'd pay those prices for the weekend, especially with no major jet team headliner.

[dzirzow]

this is what we are fighting...the agency who keeps trying to raise ticket prices.

[JBavaition]

this is what we are fighting...the agency who keeps trying to raise ticket prices.

[jhtolatc]

this is what we are fighting...the agency who keeps trying to raise ticket prices.

I don't want to discount the fact that there are challenges to keeping airshows economically viable and that they need to try to ensure they make money, but there is a balanced way to do that, and the video makes it clear that their sole focus is revenue maximization. At what point does the lack of balance tip the whole thing over? I personally have no problem spending quite a bit to attend airshows; I try to do photo tour/photo pit packages whenever I can. My issues personally come with club seating kicking the photo area far from show center, as has happened at Dayton since last year; the pricing structures ToM and Crossroads are using, which raise the general admission floor to absurd levels for people who drive in with one or two in the vehicle; and the most intellectually insulting of all, ToM's split shows which they attempt to use as a selling point!

[kalamazookid]

There is no amount of mental gymnastics that will change the following facts:

1. Thunder Over Michigan cut its normal product in half and charged multiple times over for it.
2. There is no other airshow I am aware of that charges guests twice for one day at their event.

Sometimes, when you do things differently than everyone else, it's innovative. Others, it's asinine. This is the latter.

If I were involved with providing any product or service where I deliberately cut or withheld part of the service while doubling costs for the consumer, I would be completely embarrassed. The arrogance it takes to offer people something like this while telling them it's actually better and they should be happy to pay more is both astounding and completely off-putting. I have no respect for the decision-making here and I will never stop hating.

Independently of the ticketing aspect, they haven't made a single decision that has improved the show since 2015. I find the current layout to be worse than it has ever been, there have always been large dead periods during the show, they cut their greatest feature (the double warbird carousel) and they are incapable of making any sort of adjustment to the lineup when something doesn't show up or the weather changes. There are so many other airshows that do basic things way better than TOM for a fraction of the cost. Even if the normal format returns, I likely won't ever go again.

[martin_sam_2000]

updated aircraft list!

We have lost the P-51 Ain't Misbehavin and the Commemorative Air Force's PT-26.

but we have gained the P-51D Old Crow as well as 2 FA-18E's from VFA-136, a CF-188 from baggotville and 2 F-16's from the Ohio ANG! not a bad trade at the end of the day.


as always, I have broken the list down as best as possible between flying and static

Flying:
Boeing B-29A Superfortress "FIFI":Commemorative Air Force
Boeing KC-135R Stratotanker: 92nd ARW – Fairchild AFB, WA
Consolidated B-24A Liberator "DIAMOND LIL":Commemorative Air Force
Lockheed CT-133 Silver Star "ACE MAKER III":Greg Colyer
Lockheed F-22 X2: F-22 Raptor Demonstration Team U.S.A.F.
McDonnel-Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle (Fly-by Only): 366th FW – Mountain Home AFB, ID
Mikoyan-Gurevich Mig-17 (Lim-5): Randy Ball
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23UB: Dan Filer
North American P-51B Mustang "OLD CROW”:Jack Roush
North American P-51D Mustang "BALD EAGLE":Jim Beasley (heritage flight only)
North American P-51D Mustang "GENTLEMAN JIM":Jack Roush
North American P-51D Mustang "GLAMOROUS GLEN III":James Bohannon Jr.
North American P-51D Mustang "Mormon Mustang":John Bagley
North American P-51D Mustang "NERVOUS ENERGY V": Greg Sembower
North American P-51D Mustang "OLD CROW”:Jim Hagedorn
North American P-51D Mustang "Speedball Alice”: Dan Vance
North American P-51D Mustang "Swamp Fox”: Robert Dickson
North American TF-51D Mustang: Alexander Silva
Republic P-47D Thunderbolt: Dakota Territory Air Museum
Vought FG-1D Corsair: Commemorative Air Force


Bell UH-1H Iroquois “Greyhound”: Yankee Air Museum (ride flgihts)
Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress “Yankee Lady”:Yankee Air Museum (ride flights)
Boeing PT-13 Kaydet : Commemorative Air Force (ride flights)
Douglas C-47D Skytrain “Hairless Joe”: Yankee Air Museum (ride flights)
North American Aviation B-25D Mitchell "ROSIE’S REPLY":Yankee Air Museum (ride flights)
North American T-6G Texan: Commemorative Air Force( ride flights)


Static:
Beech 18: Grimes Flying Laboratory
Beech T-34 Mentor: William Prifogle
Boeing C-17 Globemaster III: 315th Airlift Wing – Joint Base Charleston, NC
Boeing CH-47F Chinook : Detachment 1, Company B, 3-238th Aviation – Selfridge ANGB, MI
Boeing FA-18E Super Hornet: VFA-136, NAS Lemoore X2
Boeing FA-18B (CF-188): RCAF, Baggotville
Boeing KC-135: USAF RAF Mildenhall
Boeing P-8 Poseidon: VP-62 – NAS Jacksonville, FL
Boeing PT-17 Kaydet: Christopher Dackson
Cessna O-2A Skymaster : Robert Shafer
Douglas C-53 Skytrooper "Beach City Baby": Vintage Wings
Douglas C-54D Skymaster "SPIRIT OF FREEDOM": Berlin Airlift Historical Foundation
Fairchild C-123K Provider "THUNDER PIG": Air Heritage
Ford 4-AT-B Trimotor: Yankee Air Museum
Lockeed F-35B X4: USMC, Yuma Az
Lockheed C-130J Hercules: 403rd Wing – Keesler AFB, MS
Lockheed F-16C: Ohio ANG X2
McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle X2: 173rd FW - Kingsley Field ANGB, OR
McDonnell Douglas F-15D Eagle X2:173rd FW - Kingsley Field ANGB, OR
North American Aviation B-25J Mitchell "Georgie’s Gal”:Liberty Aviation Museum
North American B-25J Mitchell (display with parts):Warbirds Of Glory Museum
North American T-6D Texan: Lou Feldvary
North American T-6D Texan:Bob Pingston
North American T-28: Christopher Babb
Sikorsky MH-53E Sea Dragon: NAS Norfolk, VA
Vultee SNV-1 Valiant: Bruce Koch

[BruceK]

The flying schedule for TOM. Since I'm one of those not going, for the first time in 13 years, I'm happy to see that I'm not missing a thing. I have already or will see everything on this list this year elsewhere, for a fraction of the cost.

Morning Air Show

KC-135R Stratotanker Demonstration Team
P-51D Mustang "Swamp Fox" Demonstration
CT-133 Silver Star "ACE MAKER III" Demonstration
Mini 357th Fighter Group Salute (P-51B Mustang; P-51D Mustang X2)
F-15E Strike Eagle (x2) Exhibition
F-22 Raptor Demonstration
F-22 Raptor / Heritage Flight

Afternoon Air Show

B-29A Superfortress "FIFI" & B-24A Liberator "DIAMOND LIL" Demonstration
Trainer Heritage Flight (CT-133 Silver Star "ACE MAKER III"; TF-51D Mustang)
CT-133 Silver Star "ACE MAKER III" Demonstration
P-47D Thunderbolt Demonstration
FG-1D Corsair Demonstration
Lim-5 Demonstration
357th Fighter Group Salute (P-51B Mustang; P-51D Mustang x 5)

[iamsam2407]

this is what we are fighting...the agency who keeps trying to raise ticket prices.

This is awful. I'm sure they were involved in Seymour-Johnson's airshow, which had a "free public" crowd line of about 100 feet behind the stands. Numerous other shows have way too many tents in the way, taking up too much crowd line. Photo pits are great, but at the mercy of non photographers just placing the box wherever. Another hobby we enjoy being ruined because of greed. I'm fine paying for better seats (spots), but sometimes I cannot commit early enough before they are sold out. One more thing, why is this show hell bent on calling the aircraft as accurately as possible? Only the extremely knowledgeable know or care, the average attendee doesn't know what a Lim-5 is, but a Mig-17 is much more relatable. Why do they market like this?